Yes - Romney did dump on 47% of the country - and yes - he wants to redistribute wealth - more social security money for the poor and less for the wealthy - flip flop - flip flop.

How, exactly, is acknowledging that the 47% of the country that to some extent relies on the government assistance (whether it be in the form of direct assistance or tax relief) is unlikely to vote for him dumping on that portion of the country? It's absolutely true. Why even attempt to target that segment of the population in your campaign? They're going to vote for Obama. I honestly don't understand why people have a problem with that. Is it because he didn't dress the statement up nicely? If Obama said the same thing about people making over the magical $250K, which we've arbitrarily decided is too much and in need of trimming, courtesy of the government, the same folks with hurt feeling over Romney's words would be foaming at the mouth cheering Obama on.

So Mr. McBride - as Romney said 47% of Americans " do not take responsibility" for their lives - that they are takers - guess Romney does not think members of our military take responsibility for their lives - or yours for that matter - flip flop -

If I were a net taker or employed directly by the government and I voted strictly in my own self interest, I'd vote for Obama. The Obama campaign is specifically targeting that segment with their ads attacking Romney and Ryan. What greater proof do you need than that that Romney speaks the truth? If you don't like the words he used, tough. You weren't going to vote for him anyways.

Why do you think Obama doesn't hold back when it comes to talking about raising taxes (even when he's not just speaking privately to a bunch of supporters) on those over a certain income? Because he knows he's not going to get their vote anyways. He's better off exploiting class envy to his advantage and getting folks like you all wound up.

Blair Nielsen -

You might not know that one of government’s actual functions is to "redistribute wealth"; the main mechanism for doing so is the TAX CODE and how the government spends our TAXES.

President Obama simply told you what most people in America, who read the Constitution, actually know.

The United States of America has "redistributed wealth" for centuries, this is not a new idea from President Obama. I know this somewhat undercuts your argument; however, it does provide you with some much need facts.

@sigmund kolatzki -

The 47% comment was made in the context of a question pertaining to targeted campaign strategy.

So, let Hoffa get this straight - Romney was upfront, straight-forward, and brutally honest about his targeted campaign strategy, and yet you find him to be "dump[ing[ on 47% of the country."

Meanwhile, Obama launches, with a grandiose speech, a race based targeted campaign strategy towards African Americans, but won't come out and be honest with the American people and admit that he's being racist - and yet you're OK with this?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjoHA5ocwU

Hoffa has looked and looked but can't find any speech from Obama about a White Americans for Obama, Asian Americans for Obama, Native Americans for Obama etc. campaign targeting strategy, can you?

Using your logic, Obama has written off all non African-Americans from his campaign.

Even liberal MSNBC pundit Ed Schultz admitted that Obama likes to play the race card:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AedYE_WNlv8

But Obama won't come clean with the people and admit to it!!!

So, you prefer a guy who clearly plays the race card but denies doing so to the American people (a LIE), vs a guy who's straight-forward, upfront, and brutally honest about his targeted campaign strategy?

COME ON!!!

So you prefer a LIAR over a straight-shooter - at least you admit to it!

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Not all taxation is redistribution.

Bob McBride –

Having Willard disrespect 47% of the population, simply on the basis that they do not pay federal income taxes – you agree with him – and not expect for there to be a significant backlash is very naïve. Largely, almost every American is both a giver and a taker.

“If I were a net taker or employed directly by the government and I voted strictly in my own self-interest, I would vote for Obama.”

WHY?

What are the metrics used to determine a “NET TAKER”?

Would you still vote for Obama if you were INDIRECTLY employed by the government?

Do people vote for any other reason than their own self-interest and if so what are these reasons?

“The Obama campaign is specifically targeting that segment with their ads attacking Romney and Ryan. What greater proof do you need than that that Romney speaks the truth?”

The Obama campaign is REPEATING, TO ALL OF AMERICA, ROMNEY'S TRUTHS!

Let me see if I can follow your reasoning here. Willard has been on every side possible of every topic imaginable and both can and does change his position in a Nano-second, depending upon the environment. Ryan has lied about his marathon time, his BMI score, GM plant closing, and voted for TARP, Stimulus Plan, Auto Loan for GM, the entire Bush spending 98% of the time, and yet, another verifiable lie, touts himself as a “fiscal conservative?” Now, you want us to consider the WORD of WILLARD, (and Ryan) as YOU PUT IT, to see “Romney speaks the truth.”

Wilson I didn't read your long-winded response. I assume you disagree with me. I don't care. Romney properly identified 47% of the population that's unlikely to vote for him and to which it makes no sense to attempt to appeal. If you wish to be insulted by that, so be it. You weren't voting for him in the first place.

@Bob McBride -- So it's only 'government assistance' and lack of personal responsibility if your deductions/exemption/credits obviate the need to pay federal income tax rather than reducing your burden significantly like in the case of *cough* Mitt Romney and many of those rich fatheads he was blathering to in the video?

"Romney properly identified 47% of the population that's unlikely to vote for him and to which it makes no sense to attempt to appeal."

Except he misidentified the group. I would think that many serving soldiers and working class people who rely on the combat exemption and the mortgage deduction and end up owing no federal income tax would have voted for Romney before he implied they were 'dependent' victims who take no personal responsibility. I think you can throw some seniors in there as well.

Randy he was properly identifying a segment of the population that isn't going to vote for him and, again, to which it makes no sense to attempt to appeal. You aren't voting for him, you never were going to vote for him and if you're offended because you think you he's insulting you personally, too bad. I still don't see why that's a big deal. He's being honest about it.

Your guy is whipping you up saying he's going to stick it to "the rich" and cut you a break when, in fact, you'll likely get no breaks whatsoever. And the rich, as they always do, will find a way to avoid taxes. You should know that by now.

@Bob McBride -- I don't think you really listened to what Mitt said, nor have you read what I wrote. Some of the people who owe no federal income tax are in no way 'takers' and some of them will most likely continue to vote for Romney. It's just in insight into how this out of touch plutocrat thinks.

By the way, I'm a member of the 'worthy' 53% who pay federal income tax, and I'm not voting for Romney. He hasn't a clue.

Randy, do you think everyone who's making over $250K is NOT going to vote for Obama? Do you see him actively attempting to embrace that group of folks? What is it that makes it impossible for you to understand that candidates cannot simultaneously appeal to each and every segment of society out there and, yet, will draw supporters from those segments they choose not to spend to much time pursuing? Obama's staked out territory, so has Romney. So what? How is this different than any other election we've gone through, other than the fact that it's the one we're going through right now?

Jesus...for a bunch of old farts it's amazing how some of us act like this is the first time we've been through one of these things....

Randy, I've listened to him. I've listened to the edited versions used in the ads the Obama campaign is using. I've read what you wrote. Doesn't change a thing. You're hearing it through a filter that predisposes you to find it offensive. I think it makes perfect sense. Why should he waste resources attempting to appeal to a portion of the population that's going to vote for Obama already? Why should Obama waste resources attempting to appeal to those in the segment of the population that he identifies as being "the rich". What's the difference?

@Randy1949 -

Where's your outrage over Obama's racism that he won't admit to?

JRH –

“Not all taxation is redistribution”

REALLY, then please tell me what it is?

When you take $$$ from one group – taxpayers – and give that $$$ to the oil companies in the form of subsidies, I would call that Corporate Welfare Redistribution…

You would probably call it… “JOB CREATOR” ASSISTANCE?

Additionally, the GAO, back in August 2012, projected a growth in jobs, as a matter of fact, 12M jobs in 4 years, using the current status of our economy as a basis for that prediction...

Now, along comes Willard, and says that if his vulture capitalism plan, coupled with Lyn' Ryan's 20% tax reduction, the destruction of Medicare for vouchers, plus elimination of tax deductions he will not tell you about, until AFTER THE ELECTION, etc., will create 12M jobs in 4-years... plus we have to have Willard, a crazy man in our living room every day for 4-years and we can look forward to having the arrogant, "it would take too long to explain the math," preppy kid take over the presidency when Willard goes psychotic on us... just who do you think NON RACISTS and RATIONAL people who love this country OVER ANY STUPID PARTY is going to pick?

Bob McBride –

“Doesn't change a thing. You're hearing it through a filter that predisposes you to find it offensive.”

Ah, forgive me, I completely forgot about the infamous OFFENSIVE FILTER!

That damn OFFENSIVE FILTER comes to all fully human beings, who think, feel, discern, possess the capacity for empathy, compassion, justice, human and civil rights, and, mostly to differentiate between mountains of elephant droppings and the TRUTH…

Yeah, I am hearing you very clearly through that OFFENSIVE FILTER... because you are OFFENSIVE...

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Some excise taxes, such as the tax on petrol fuels, go to support the infrastructure that the users of such systems rely upon - not the arbitrary redistribution of wealth.

As far as Romney goes, he's not making any specific promises because he realizes that his power as President is limited. He's not sure what he'll be able to get through Congress. As Ryan stated, the framework was advanced as a starting point for Congressional negotiation.

Contrast this to Obama, who makes specific promises, like a dictator, "take it to the bank," and then ends up lying about nearly everything he promised back in 2008 because he isn't a dictator - at least not yet anyway.

You can have fun with your running wild dictator that panders to his voters with false "take it to the bank" promises! Don't you think Obama should know the limitations of his power as President as a former Constitutional law authority? And yet, he's still making promises that he should know don't lie directly within the purview of his ability to control!

Hoffa doesn't know who has the bigger problem and disconnect with reality - you or Obama!

Personally, Hoffa is going with the team that realizes their limited role in our government and acknowledges such to the voter!

Nuitari -

"Polls are worthless."

Not only worthless, inane propaganda and extremely useless snapshots in time... unless, unless, unless, they show YOUR candidate AHEAD!

Then, they are priceless gems of scientific certainty...

@Lyle, Here's a simple analogy to help you with this one. A fish doesn't know its wet. The mainstream media is terribly biased. They have been Obama's lapdog. If nothing else, when they don't openly promote their agenda, they at least fail to report the other side. I honestly believe FoxNews is at least civil in their reporting, not at all like MSNBC where they flat out demonize everything and everyone conservative.

I'll admit voter registration isn't a huge problem...yet, but you are showing real ignorance on this since you obviously paid no attention to what happened in Racine County during the recall election. Officials ignore people pointing out fraud. They even had pre-made ballots.

Both proven to be myths? Keep your head in the sand if it makes you feel better.

Sort of like how liberals used ALEC and the Koch Bros to make themselves feel better about the results of the recall debacle, right Lyle?

Both sides think they're victims of biased media and subterfuge when they don't win. No need to be disingenuous and suggest only one side rationalizes its failures.

"...but make conservatives feel better for not performing better."

OK, Lyle, so how do you explain the "shellacking" dems took in 2010, and failed recall effort against the Governor? Looks like pretty good conservative performance to me. And btw, what is your explaination for such bad dem performance? I've been willing to put myself out there on prediction, but you are always "wait and see." And then no comment. It is the professorial way, eh? Never make a decision until it is too late. We have a President just like that.

@Nuitari....I have been listening to complaints about media for, well let's see, four or five decades. I don't pay any attention to MSNBC or Fox, since I know the bias of each network. I do listen to right wing talk radio knowing full well what their biases are. What am I missing here? Are you and others claiming that the American public is so stupid that the media is really instrumental in swaying them one way or the other. i don't think so.

As far as polling goes, neither party should be all that enthusiastic about polls. The conservatives are always talking about individuality and personal responsibility; if a conservative is down in the polls, maybe there's something wrong with the candidate's message or campaign. With the economy as sluggish as it is, then Romney should be whippin' Obama's butt. I suggest it's something at about Romney/Ryan and not the media or the polls.

@bob McBride...I happen to agree with you. Can't blame ALEC, Kochs, or any other third party fall guys. Money buys air time that's all. Both sides look for easy answers to deflect away from what they don't know anything about. I agree that Romney was stating a fact about the 47% that aren't going to vote for him under any circumstance. To me that wasn't news, but an opportunity for the left to make hay. Romney has a campaign crisis of his own making. The opposition are just taking advantage of his own missteps.

@GearHead...How do I explain the "shellacking" that Democrats took in 2010? That's quite simple; people were ready for a change. In addition, the Democrats put up some pretty weak candidates as choices. The only candidate that surprised me was Feingold's loss to Johnson. But, keeping in mind people were looking for change, it's not all that surprising.

As far as recalling the governor, I predicted the outcome and that it was too early to attempt such a recall. If they were planning a recall it should have been after this November's election. The 2013/2014 budget is where the rubber meets the road. Especially if the Republicans can't regain the State Senate. Walker and the Republicans picked all the low hanging fruit during the last budget cycle. In 2014 he had better have given the state 250K jobs or his butt is on the line.

Lyle, yep, except I don't blame Romney for the campaign. He's being mismanaged, he's been strapped with the wrong VP candidate and he, like McCain was, is being forced to pretend he's something he's not. Nothing was learned in '08, apparently. Left to his own devices he'd be a good presidential candidate and a good president. As it is, he looks uncomfortable in his own skin and the VP, once again, is controversial and not VP material.

@Lyle, yes the bias issue as been around for a while, but it escalated under Bush and then caught wildfire under Obama. Even if they were blushing over a Republican president, I will still have the sense of mind to at least recognize it.

And yes, I believe the majority of Americans are politically dumb and certainly uninformed. So many people still depend on newspapers and basic TV for their news and the sad thing is they take those sources as gospel. Fortunately or unfortunately the younger generations are turning to internet media for their news.

One last thing, again, polls are just good for water cooler conversation, and I treat them as such, no matter who is in the "lead".

John Taxthepoor -

As an example of the quintessential TAKER, you might have left at least ONE drop of that GOP vile, hatred Kool-Aide in the water tower...

@Frances -

So, let Hoffa get this straight - it was ok for you to scream bias about the MU poll when it went against your side (despite being proven accurate), but it's now not ok for conservatives to scream bias about the poll when it goes against their candidate?!?!

Yeah, Hoffa can see that the infamous hypocritical liberal double standard is still fully intact!

FYI - The MU poll used the 2010 election as the baseline for their sampling on the recall race. As the recall race closely mirrored the turnout of 2010, it was proven to be highly accurate.

However, the MU poll is using 2008 as the baseline for the 2012 Presidential election. Will there be that kind of turnout again among the varying demographics - hard to say. We'll find out on November 6th. If turnout is down, then we'll know that the polls were skewed and biased.

The Walker recall looniness was called after 45 minutes with the right outcome.

Romney/ Ryan are the cure......Obama/ Biden is the disease.

The Lefty 'polling calls' are really biased political ads. I had one the other day that asked about my level of approval of Romney/Ryan on various issues. After each answer, the recording stated lies and propaganda about that issue and then asked the question again. It's no wonder why polling results are favoring the Dems--they try to lead people to give the answer they want to hear...

cow, it goes both ways, but the one's I had recently were not skewed and did not let on who they were for, they were clear nonpartisan groups.

Not sure that it does go both ways--before this I've never taken a phone poll that tries to change my opinion, much less tells lies to influence my answer. I don't see my side doing such things...

cow, don't be in denial, I have had more calls from Republican leaning pollsters than Dems here in Waukesha County because they just assume because of our area that we will agree with them. Maybe it depends where you live, what types of calls you will get. But the point is, I believe both sides do it and it doesn't sway opinion when you've made up your mind anyway. It was like that with the governor race and the recall. Now I am not seeing that from this race, but I suppose with Thompson Baldwin, those will be coming...

@Menoparent -

The math adds up. If Romney's plan creates the kind of job growth that he's projecting, 12M new private sector jobs, we'll have12M more people paying into the system. With 12M more people working, they won't be draining from the system any longer either - so we'll actually be able to cut spending. With the combination of additional revenues and decreased spending, it will be possible to lower the marginal rates, without affecting middle/working class exemptions and deductions, and experience revenue neutrality - not that we necessarily need revenue neutrality, as Romney/Ryan plan to cut a lot more spending from the federal budget.

It works. Why Ryan couldn't explain it this way when being interviewed by Chris Wallace on Sunday is beyond Hoffa - maybe Ryan was just having an off day.

Granted, Hoffa prefers his proposed federal tax plan over Romney's, it's definitely better than the alternative of higher taxes across the board that is being offered by Obama and the Dems!

Menoparent -

Damn, you are good! Spot on! Thank YOU!

I am astounded and extremely happy to hear ONE VOICE OF REASON coming out of that vile, GOP, hate-infested County of Waukesha...

@John Wilson -- *raises hand and waves* I live in Waukesha County. It's lonely sometimes.

@Lyin' John Wilson -

When's the last time you saw conservative protestors marching around the capital with signs depicting Democratic leaders as Adolf Hitler? Hoffa can't recall any time that this has occurred in our state's history.

Now, when's the last time you saw liberal protestors marching around the capital with signs depicting Governor Walker and Republican leaders as Adolf Hitler?

Clearly, the vile and hate filled counties in the state would be primarily Dane and Milwaukee.

Care to try again?

Thanks John, although there are few, I am not only one in Waukesha County.

JRH –

Willard has consistently attempted to twist his 47% comments into so many pretzels, that now Disneyland is coming out with the 47% Willard Pretzel…

Lyin’ Ryan has characterized the 47% comment by Willard as “Obviously inarticulate.”

Now, most of America can see their lips moving – like the used car salesman – but we can’t hear you…

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Can't deny the reality of Hoffa's statement, so instead, and in true Alinsky fashion, you attempt to shift the subject!

HACK!!!

CowDung -

It is interesting to learn that you talk with robo-recordings; I guess that answers all my questions about you...

John Wilson- no scapegoat....just victory.
At the end of this, the American people will realize that 8% and over unemployment with more people out of work now than when he took office, is unexceptable.
Romney/ Ryan are the cure...Obama/ Biden is the disease.

@Lyin' John Wilson -

You're free to trust secondary third party sources as much as your heart desires - as for Hoffa, he'll stick to the primary source facts, thank you very much - they are the only real unbiased TRUTH out there today.

Gearhead - Keep calling people MOOCHERS that get SS, Medicare, and those that have major disabilities and you keep alienating them. And many of those 47% of the U.S. "moochers" are socially conservative Republicans and independents who could be insulted by silver foot in his mouth Romney, and no wonder the Republicans have a tangled and shredded strategy for winning an election.

Dirk: Keep insulting those who earn the money and pay the taxes - only to see it being squandered by moochers bragging about their free Obama phones, and cities blowing stimulus monies on dubious projects. Some of those responsible Americans are Democrats and independants who shudder at the thought of what another Obama term means to their future.

@Dirk -

Actually, those receiving SS and Medicare are currently receiving substantially more than what they paid into the system, so yeah, they would be properly classified as moochers for the amounts that they're receiving above and beyond what they paid in.

As for the disabled, well, there's the government's definition of disabled and then there's the truly disable! And those who are truly disable and wholly incapable of helping themselves represents less than 1% of our overall population. They are non-moochers. For the rest of the so-called 'disabled' though, yes they are moochers!

What of it? Romney's not running for President to get people to like him or get rich (he's already rich, as you guys on the left just love to point out as if it's some evil/bad thing) - he's running because he sees problems with the US that he believes he can fix!

ROMNEY/RYAN/THOMPSON/VOS 2012!!!

JRH –

Regarding those PRIMARY SOURCES...

Many people who paid a lifetime into SS and Medicare die long before they can ever collect it – damn moochers!

Some folks actually do receive, under Medicare or Medicaid more than what they ever paid into the Medicare program – these folks should be given the death penalty… no $$$; no Life!

Regarding the disabled, – you, of all people, really should NOT go there – and their designation as such, is really an ongoing process. Some people – no arms & no legs – are given a lifetime designation as disabled; most other folks are monitored and evaluated, mostly in 3-5 year increments, to determine if, in fact, they still qualify for the disability designation.

The Social Security Disability Rate was 4.1% of the population in 2005, and it has risen since that time. Therefore, “And those who are truly disable and wholly incapable of helping themselves represents less than 1% of our overall population.” statement is, to be kind, grossly inaccurate.

Since Social Security is the final arbiter regarding who is actually disabled, based on their metrics, I see no reason to confer any credibility to what you “may think" the actual rate should be.

Finally, Willard is running for president because he is both mentally unstable and he has an unquenchable lust for power… that is all there is to that…

http://www.nber.org/bah/fall06/w12436.html

http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/statistics/census-figures.php

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Again, the government definition of 'disabled,' is a joke - Hoffa used to do social work for Racine County. 98% of the people Hoffa dealt with in that job listed SSI disability as their sole source of income. And yet, Hoffa would commonly see 97% of those people hanging out with their friends, playing basketball, doing roofing work, etc. But they can't work for a living, because according to you and government, they're disabled - BULL!!!

As Hoffa previously stated, less than 1% of the population is TRULY disabled and incapable of helping themselves - and Hoffa is all for helping those people!

You want to help scam artists, that's fine, just do it with your own money instead of Hoffa's!!!

JRH -

The "JOKE" here, particularily regarding the issue of "Disability" is that you want your Narcissistic Personal Disorder to redefine "Disability." Forget what our government, laws and statutes say about “Disability”, the only definition of “Disability” that counts is Hoffa’s personal opinion… you are one sick puppy!

Hoffa once saw a tanned guy playing basketball...

Magical qualities, like Bush looking int the eyes of Putin and ascertaining that he was a really fine man… That’s the REAL problem with the GOP, it goes far beyond their rigid, intolerant lack of any other view, ability to compromise, it is their BELIEF IN MAGICAL THINKING…

@John

Remember that Hoffa posts in third person--his imaginary friend is the magical Hoffa.

.............

John Wilson

3:22 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012

JRH -

The "JOKE" here, particularily regarding the issue of "Disability" is that you want your Narcissistic Personal Disorder to redefine "Disability." Forget what our government, laws and statutes say about “Disability”, the only definition of “Disability” that counts is Hoffa’s personal opinion… you are one sick puppy!

Hoffa once saw a tanned guy playing basketball...

Magical qualities, like Bush looking int the eyes of Putin and ascertaining that he was a really fine man… That’s the REAL problem with the GOP, it goes far beyond their rigid, intolerant lack of any other view, ability to compromise, it is their BELIEF IN MAGICAL THINKING…

@lyin' John Wilson -

The only sick puppy around here is the one you see staring back at you in the mirror every morning (that is of course if you can actually stand seeing yourself in a mirror)!

The government isn't always right, nor does the government always do what's in the best interests of its citizenry, and and only a fool, such as yourself, would believe otherwise!

'Disability,' as far as receiving SSI benefits is concerned, should be properly defined as being fully incapable of helping ones self. Then, only those who are truly disabled would be getting the assistance they need and deserve, while all the scam artist moochers might have to start actually working for a living, as it should be!

Are you sure you aren't an old MK-Ultra experiment gone seriously wrong and rejected as a defect?

Blair Nielsen -

Capitalism only works until you run out of slaves... err... workers...

Blair Nielsen -

"Well its four years later and everything is worse!"

Stock market is now at 13,500 - highest since 2007.

4.5M private sector jobs created

We are not losing 800k jobs a month

Housing market is turning around

Wall Street is solid and making more money than ever

(6) Mega-banks now control the entire economy and are larger than pre-2008

Yes, Blair, I see just what you mean: "Well its four years later and everything is worse!"

...says the truest of the Lefty Lemmings.

@Blair: Obama's trillion dollar stimulus was immoral too. It amounts to $3200 for every man, woman and child, in the country. Grandma could have bought a lot of medication if Obama would have sent her the $3200. Or the family of 4 would have had a nice foot-up on tuition costs with the $12800 that Obama pissed up a rope, by lining the pockets of his ultra wealty friends. Immoral is laughing, when the money was wasted, saying "I guess the jobs weren't really shovel ready".

Nick Poulos -

Spot on!

Ann Romney has every reason to be concern with Willard's "Mental Well-Being" should he become president... last Sunday all over TV...

I've been concerned about Willard's Mental Stability for the last 6-years he has been running for president...

I suspect that the choice of Lyin' Ryan for his VP running mate will only increase his chances of becoming the chosen ONE.

Imagine that, an emotionally unstable president, ready to slip off into psyco-land at any moment, and an arrogant, mighty mouse, only concerned with his body, and his ever-growing ability to lie, waiting in the wings to replace him.

Hey, folks, it's AMERICA!

AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM!

@Nick Poulos -

This is same old tired line that you've used countless times here on Patch already - don't you have any new material to offer us?

Mike, that was Fox News slant on it. Bush started the push for all to be homeowners and Alan Greenspan was all for it with no regulations as usual. I wonder if they knew the banks could handle the fall out by selling these bad loans to unknowing overseas banks. GREED! Until our banks were caught and could no longer sell these bad loans was when regulation was first thought of and even though Dems may have been in denial then, Bush was our president and did nothing about it. If I were a bank, I wouldn't give a loan to someone who didn't have a job or enough money to pay me back. They did it anyway, knowing they could screw it onto someone else or get bailed out which they did.

@Mike & @Menoparent -

Actually, you both have it wrong - what caused the crash were the lowlifes who took on loans that they obviously couldn't afford and then defaulted on their promises to repay those loans. If it wasn't for the lowlife liars that reneged on the promises they made, there wouldn't have been any problems.

@hoffa -
A note from John Q. Public, or “An Ode to Hoffa…” #1 of 3
I have been a patch reader for about a year and must say I am amazed with the level of discourse in the comments section of the site. As a political moderate, I find it interesting to read the comments coming from various viewpoints. Of all of the voices trying to be heard, there is one voice, yes, one voice, that consistently cuts through the din, James R Hoffa.
“The Hoffa” He’s a well organized guy, quick on his toes, has all of his facts readily at hand and seems to respond to everyone’s posts regardless of the time of day – he stands like a sentinel. It appears that nothing contrary to his world view escapes his scathing responses and I have never seen him concede to the validity of someone else’s argument – he truly is steadfast!

@hoffa –
A note from John Q. Public, or “An Ode to Hoffa…” #2 of 3
The guy doesn’t mince his words; he’s a master of labeling people. If you agree with him, I’m sure he considers you a proud American patriot. If not, lookout! He knows just who are the moochers . He knows that if you’re on SS or Medicare that you are receiving substantially more than what you paid in. Apparently Hoffa knows how long you paid in, how much you paid in, and, to close the loop, how long you’ll live. Do you work for the government? Sucks being you because Hoffa appears to hate you and everything you represent. Without even meeting you, he knows that you’re lazy and feel entitled to your job – teachers, trash collectors, civil engineers, dog catchers – doesn’t matter you can all be replaced! If you offer sources contrary to Hoffa’s or your opinion differs from Hoffa’s you are likely to be labeled a hack, a liar, an elitist, a snob, or his worst insult, a liberal.

@hoffa –
A note from John Q. Public, or “An Ode to Hoffa…” #3 of 3
From what I’ve gathered from a sampling of his numerous posts, Hoffa is a self-made man who proudly proclaims that he runs his own business, covers all of his medical costs, plows his own fields, milks his cows, personally excavated the moat around his home in the country, and was recently spotted churning his own butter – presumably for his restaurant. He’s a self-made renaissance man with no need to compromise because his facts are the only facts that matter.
Don’t get “The Q” wrong, it’s not just Hoffa, there are others posting here from both the right and left who continuously spit their flavor of venom. My opinion is that the right is much better at being mean than the left – tighten up your game, lefties! Hoffa, who annoyingly refers to himself in the third

@hoffa –
A note from John Q. Public, or “An Ode to Hoffa…” #4 of 3! – darn copy/paste!

person, has taken venom spitting to an art form. I can barely stomach reading the Patch comments sections because of the vicious tone. The man who really fans the flames is Jame R Hoffa. Congrats!
I don’t know if Hoffa will respond or simply ignore this post. If he responds, I’ve got a pretty good idea of what it will sound like: mean, condescending, dismissive, all seasoned with a touch of sarcasm! I’m sure he’ll find fault with at least one thing that I’ve written but I don’t care. My only hope is that, just like the Grinch, some day he will come out of his cave, have an epiphany, and that cold, tiny little heart of his grows by a few sizes.

JRH – Mike – Menoparent -

Actually, JRH has it wrong, as usual. Wall Street, Freddie & Fannie and AIG all knew that there was real money to be made with the BUSH. “Everyone should be able to buy a home program.”

Hence, they colluded to change the underwriting specifications, in-house, lowering the standard to the point where anyone who could crawl into a mortgage office and scratch an “X” on an extremely complicated legal form... job, deposit, adequate credit rating or not was no longer anywhere in the equation.

They had help from Congress and President Bush too, as the regulations and regulators had all pretty much been effectively defanged by then... less trained regulators and fewer regulations...

Hence they went ape on the sales to everyone, knowing that they would all make $$$ on re-selling these mortgage papers over and over to different banks and a massive overseas market.

This is how the 1% make their $$$... Greed-Cheat Rules!

Now you have some insight into why the GOP wants:

Smaller government

Less regulation

Less regulators

@Lyin' John Wilson -

Are you denying the FACT that had everyone made good on the promises they made and repaid the loans that they took out that a crash and credit market freeze wouldn't have happened?!?!

Unlike you, Hoffa understands that demand is a far more powerful force than supply. You prefer to blame the drug dealers (supply side) - the lenders, investment banks, etc. Hoffa prefers to blame the junkies (demand side) - the greedy lowlifes who made promises to repay loans and then defaulted on those promises.

Hoffa did not support the bailouts of Fanny, Freddie, AIG, and all other institutions that received and failed to repay TARP funds.

@John Q. Public -

Always glad to hear from another Hoffa fan!

While you may read Hoffa's words, it's obvious that you haven't comprehended them very well.

BTW - "The Q," is definitely no John de Lancie ;-)

@Hoffa -
That's right, "The Q" isn't John de Lancie. Then again, "The Q"isn't a big fan of science fiction.

JRH -

I propose to put the blame where it belongs, on the TAKERS, who created this entire ABORTION; you too, are a TAKER.

After all the smoke finally settled from this financial mess, who really made out financially?

Who is doing just fine today?

Wall Street is at 13,500, Fannie & Freddie is in great shape, AIG and the banks are just flush with money, holding on to 3T plus, and living off the interest of my money.

Those "low-life people", as you call them, well, some 12M are under water with their mortgage, on the street, working 3-jobs or all the above.

When you assess any action, a reasonable approach is to first look at the action itself – these financial institutions issuing these funky documents, knowing that no matter if everyone defaulted, they would still make millions of dollars – and the consequences of these actions.

Financial institutions all made millions, and got my tax money to help their profits!

The people who purchased a home from these financial institutions all got the “Hoffa”, as did the rest of America and the American taxpayer…

@lyin' John Wilson -

No one forced the low life defaulters to take on loans that they couldn't afford. There wasn't any duress involved, as you appear to be trying to claim.

No, the real problem is that the American people lost their sense of personal responsibility. They lost their character and integrity. Back in the '50's, when a person put their name on the line and sealed a deal with a handshake, it actually meant something. And if you defaulted on the promises you made, you were shamed by society, in addition to being disappointed with yourself.

Today, it's perfectly acceptable to break promises all the time, without any repercussion. Democratic legislators actually encouraged people to just walk away from their underwater real estate and congruent financial responsibilities, or to stay put in a home that they were legally evicted from for failure to actually pay for it, because somehow they were entitled to that home. What's wrong with this picture?!?!

If you don't pay, you're not entitled to jack! Those people didn't pay - they never should have had in the first place. But the kind bankers and Wall Street types actually gave those people a chance to prove themselves worthy of owning and being responsible for something that was beyond their means. And for that kindness, you label them crooks just because they found a way to make money no matter what?!?!

As Hoffa said before, he didn't agree with the bailouts that weren't paid back in full with interest.

The heat is on for Mitt!

elephantgun ‏@elephantgun

I guess those #SkewedPolls are really taking their toll on other #GOP politicians. http://news.yahoo.com/gop-reviews-turning-negative-romneys-campaign-165237654--election.html #p2 #Romneyshambles #wiunion

WASHINGTON (AP) — On the eve of the first presidential debate, the early autumn Republican reviews are in for Mitt Romney's campaign, and they are not pretty.

In some states, candidates who share the Nov. 6 ballot with the former Massachusetts governor have taken steps to establish independence from him. Party strategists predict more will follow, perhaps as soon as next week, unless Romney can dispel fears that he is headed for defeat......

@Bren -

All flash, no substance - but if that's what floats your boat...

What makes you think that a US Senator who spent most of his FIRST TERM running for another office, knows anything about running something? Before that Obama was in his first term as a state senator and since he voted over 100 times "present" he didn't know what he was doing there either.

Romney/ Ryan are the cure.....Obama/ Biden is the disease.

Good news for all of the USA --and for Pres. Obama.

Erik ‏@ejkirkstein

Manufacturing in U.S. Expands Unexpectedly as Orders Rise http://bloom.bg/P6aCeq via @BloombergNews #p2 #tcot #wiunion #election

@Randy1949 -

The only difference is that Hoffa doesn't perceive Obama's targeted campaign strategy of racism to reflect his actual sentiments and policy positions, because Hoffa is a fair guy. Hoffa was merely using your logic, and applied that logic to Obama in concluding that Obama is a racist.

To the contrary, you actually do hold Romney's targeted campaign strategy of 53% to reflect his actual sentiments and policy positions - WHY?!?! Just because he's rich??? Since when did 'rich' become a dirty word? Doesn't everyone dream of winning the lottery? If you've ever played the lottery or gambled at a casino, then you're not really any different than Mitt, are you? The only difference is that Mitt succeeded in attaining that dream.

@JRH -- I'm only judging Romney on the basis of his words. If he believed that those who want to be 'dependent on government' will never vote for him, he erred in speaking about the 47% who don't pay federal income taxes. The percentage of actual dependents is much lower.

@Randy1949 -

Hoffa was raised to judge a person based upon their actions over their words.

Obama has LIED about a majority of the campaign promises he made in 2008 - his actions did not reflect his words.

@rob-- juvenile name calling. Let's leave this debate for the adults OK?

JMB -

The only thing you have to do is to shut your eyes, stand on ONE foot and Pirouette around (3) complete – no partials – must be complete times, saying Rumpelstiltskin as you proceed in that circle… Then you will see that Willard is winning in ALL the polls…

@rob -

And Obama isn't a "ridiculous rich man" himself?

Blair Nielsen -

"Hoffa knows what he's talking about and is good at telling it like it is."

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, inaccurate and as biased as it may be.

IF you believe the earth is flat, Hoffa is your man; IF you are an extremely “low-information” [JRH's favorite word] person, Hoffa is your man; IF you are a fanatical GOP person, and part of the Hoffa Cabal here on the Patch, Hoffa is your man...

IF you are an independent thinker, one who researches and believes in FACTS – NOT consensus opinions as Hoffa does – one who is guided by reason and logic, as opposed to a rigid ideology, science and the scientific method, one who requires empirical evidence, then Hoffa is simply one of many loud, arrogant, and pompous fools, expecting everyone to worship at his phenomenal mountain of ignorance…

You poor lost child…

@Blair Nielsen -
Green isn't my color as I'm not envious of Hoffa and his ilk. If there was a color for pity or disdain, I would be that color - perhaps orange? All sorts of good things are orange - carrots, oranges, cheetos... It was sweet of you to defend him though; apparently I touched a nerve with you...

Doofa is 34 years old with no life experience other than what the internet, TV and radio feeds his ears. PLEASE, don't give some media regurgitator credit other than he lives a sheltered life with no wife, no kids or any hands on skills needed in this life.

@$$andSense -
"The Q" had no idea that Hoffa lived such as sad life. I thought that a self-reliant job creator like Hoffa would have to fight off the ladies with a stick.

@Blair Nielsen -

Thank you kindly - Hoffa appreciates your comment!

@Lyin' John Wilson -

There you go again!

"IF you are an independent thinker, one who researches and believes in FACTS – NOT consensus opinions as Hoffa does - ..."

Coming from a man who only ever cites to third party secondary sources, as opposed to primary sources as Hoffa always attempts to do!

"... then Hoffa is simply one of many loud, arrogant, and pompous fools, expecting everyone to worship at his phenomenal mountain of ignorance."

Coming from a man who refers to himself as "the Great John Wilson."

To those who aren't familiar with the Great John Wilson, his official motto is:

Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!

That explains everything you need to know about Lyin' John Wilson - enough said!

@$$andNonsense -

Up to your old Excalibur tricks again?

And Hoffa supposes that at 34, you had two bachelors degrees, a masters degree, a doctorate degree, co-owned a business that you helped started, paid your own way through school without loans or government assistance, owned your own estate, had a brand new car that you paid cash for, etc.?

Yeah, you only wish that you were half as successful as Hoffa is when you were his age!

Get back into your double-wide - your wife/sister is looking for you!

@John Q. Public -

You'd crap your pants if you knew the reality of Hoffa's lady situation!

@Hoffa -
If you say so, then it must be true.

I am guessing Hoffa's lady situation is a good conservative woman like Sarah Palin,
only younger and hotter.

JRH –

Certainly Ray-Gun would turn over in his grave to hear you attempt to quote him...

“Some excise taxes, such as the tax on petrol fuels, go to support the infrastructure that the users of such systems rely upon - not the arbitrary redistribution of wealth.”

Wisconsin has a current 30.9¢ excise tax on gasoline, which hardly supports anywhere near what the infrastructure costs actually are, and, they are both arbitrary – up to the discretion of Congress – and a redistribution of wealth from those who use gasoline – many folks do not – back to the government, which can arbitrarily decide to use that money for just about anything it wants.

These excise taxes are another example of a “redistribution of wealth” as they vary by what the congress decides it will allow – both up & down – and is largely dictated to by the Gas, Oil, Petroleum (GOP) Lobbyists.

Like Lyin’ Ryan’s 2nd MAJOR LEGISLATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENT (his last – his 1st was naming a PO in Janesville) in 14-years as a Congressman from Wisconsin at $174,000 a year. He amended the IRS code to ADD 39¢ to the purchase of each arrow – typically, these arrows are used in hunting Hoffa’s.

It is interesting that the intellectual leader, policy wonk of the GOP writes, proposes and gets a bill passed increasing taxes… Remember, it is “what you do!”

Nice try…

@Lyin' John Wilson -

So, you caught the Reagan quote - good for you!

However, you missed the Dan O'Herlihy quote - shame, shame!

While it's true that politicians can easily raid transportation funds, it's up to the people to make sure that government uses the revenues from excise taxes as originally intended by their enabling statutes - in other words the voters need to hold the politicians accountable for their deceitful acts.

Case in point is former Governor Big Daddy Doyle, who raided the state's transportation fund for billions to pay for non-transportation related expenditures. In 2010, the people had enough of such shenanigans and voted in Walker, who restored those funds.

JRH –

“While it's true that politicians can easily raid transportation funds, it's up to the people to make sure that government uses the revenues from excise taxes as originally intended by their enabling statutes - in other words the voters need to hold the politicians accountable for their deceitful acts.”

The PEOPLE have NEVER been able to STOP the GOVERNMENT – federal or state – from doing whatever they want with money! No one is that naïve!

Social Security has 2.7 TRILLION in IOU’s from Congress in it… where is the money? It is in our pockets; we will have to pay it back, AGAIN!

Where is the proof that Doyle raided the transportation fund of BILLONS to pay for unrelated expenditures?

[Actually, Walker did that]

Where is the proof that Walker restored these – imaginary stolen funds – and replaced them?

What Walker did do was obtain some federal money, under false pretenses, fill in some holes in the budget with these funds – he had to pay off his cronies – then bulldoze money from one portion of the budget to another and then still another, then put some items on the credit card… finally, then proclaim, MAGICALLY, WE HAVE A BUDGET SURPLUS!

And the Wisconsin GOP lemmings cheered, "All praise to Gov Walker!"

I just love these monumentally stupid, MAGIC THINKING REPUBLICANS…

@lyin' John Wilson -

Now you're lying about Doyle and Governor Walker - you're just a non-stop lying machine, aren't you?

Doesn't it sound great to say out-loud - Governor Walker!

The people of this fine state rejected your blue fist nonsensical temper tantrum. Allow the grown ups to run things for a while - you just may end up liking the results you experience!

As for SS, the program is a scam. It's essentially the federal government treating its citizenry like children instead of treating us like adults. The government says 'we don't trust you to save or invest your money wisely, so we're going to take your money from you and set it aside and invest it for you, deciding when and how much at a time we'll pay your own money back to you.' But the only thing that the government invests the SS money in is Treasuries, or government debt, which is repaid via revenues generated from additional taxation. Hence the SS Trust Fund doesn't actually make any real wealth generating investments - it just taxes us even more!

The government should treat its citizens like adults. Those who don't save or invest wisely are on their own and can work until they die - at least it's their choice, and freedom of choice is what our government should be giving us the most of instead of taking those choices away from us!

SS should be reformed to an opt in system instead of a compulsory program.

@JRH -- It's partly the government saying they don't trust bosses to pay enough for their employees to have anything left over to save for retirement. And I think when you get down to it, that's the reason for the opposition -- the employer contribution.

@Randy1949 -

So, what would be so wrong with making SS an opt-in program? Those choosing to manage their own money would be paid the employer contribution directly in additional wages.

JRH -

The idea here, for Social Security, is SECURITY!

[Another TAKE AWAY by the GOP: YOUR SECURITY!]

It might have been an enlightening and interesting experience if King George would have had his Opt Out going full force when Wall Street hit the wall in 2008… we could have 150M Americans living on the street, on food stamps and their children dying on the streets.

Never underestimate the SELF RESPONSIBILITY cabal and their predilection to engage in MAGICAL THINKING…

Social Security will remain a compulsory program, in spite of Hoffa’s incoherent and puerile babblings to the contrary. It will remain compulsory because it provides SECURITY and a base line for people who have the means to take additional discretionary money they may have and invest that for their retirement in the Casinos of Wall Street. IF you only have these personal investments – in the Casino – when you lose it, as you will because of your lack of sophistication and impulsiveness, especially in the stock market, you will become completely dependent upon MY TAX MONEY.

Furthermore, I have said before, I despise MONOLITHIC STUPIDITY… and I would not elect people like you to feed off of me so you could further contaminate the gene pool…

@lyin' John Wilson -

Where's the law stating that people have to invest their money in Wall Street? Can you please provide the statutory citation from the US Code!

Hoffa's point is freedom and choice - if you opt out and mess up, too bad. Hoffa never said that those who messed up would get welfare, did he? Instead, those who messed up would just have to work until they die. It's called taking personal responsibility for your own actions/choices!

But no, you prefer a government to treat its citizens like babies instead of treating us like adults, because you in fact like being treated like a baby. That's actually quite sad and pathetic!

Sorry, but Hoffa likes being treated like an adult because he is an adult!

Reform SS to an opt-in program!!!

JRH –

It really is very sad when you have to leave a comment telling people you are an adult.

Nothing is stopping any American from investing – outside of SS – any of their monies in any type of investment they desire. You are free to do that now.

I never made mention of any law or statute saying you had to invest in Wall Street; that’s just another insertion of yours, another specious argument, and another of your lies

Frankly, I’m surprised you are not downtown at the Pfister Hotel investing your massive amounts of money in your older brother’s, Lyin’ Ryan’s campaign – now that would be a stellar investment for you.

The entire argument for any type of Opt in or Opt out of Social Security is just another attack by the GOP and their lackeys to get more public money out of Social Security – a program the GOP has hated and fought against since 1935 – and get that money into Wall Street. Additionally, and this is the real focus, to weaken and eventually destroy Social Security. The GOP [Gas, Oil, Petroleum] Party wants ALL your money, and will not be satisfied until they get it ALL.

Candidly, I would make this issue one of your esteemed, landmark legal cases, like ACA or Van Hollen’s STAY; you lost 2 of 2 so far, I know a 3rd loss could not hurt your legal credibility any… besides, there are worse things than always being wrong, you might be White, full of hubris, extremely dense and monumentally arrogant.

It is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Yeah - don't you wish the rest of America were just like Missouri - JMB - North Carolina - Missouri - you must have been very good in finding the lowest common denominator in school. And when it comes to accumulated debt- put that in the column of unfounded and unwarranted and unpaid for Bush wars along with unpaid for tax cuts for the likes of Romney, Koch, et al.

@sigmund kolatzki -

As far as debt accumulation goes, did you blame Wilson for WWI? FDR for WWII? How about LBJ for Vietnam?

So, Bush's wars were "unfounded and unwarranted" - really? Let's assume that Iraq really was just all about oil. Do you not have an interest in oil? Guess you consume no plastic products, right? And your car must run on rainbows and sunshine, yes?

Ah yes, the Koch Bros - glad you were able to fit them into your finger pointing exposure of evil doers!

Hoffa feels so enlightened now! Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us!

@$$andNonsense -

Get off the Patch and spend some time with your wife/sister!

@JMB 5:27 am on Wednesday, October 3, 2012 said:

"Sigmoron, the point of this blog is that the US is turning back to the Conservatives"

No, smart folks in WI are not turning to the Conservatives!

TPM Livewire ‏@TPMLiveWire

Poll: Tammy Baldwin Up 4 Points In Wisconsin Senate Race http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/poll-tammy-baldwin-up-4-points-in-wisconsin … via @TPM

Up 4 in today’s #WIsen @MULawPoll! Tammy maintains her lead after millions of $$ of attack ads spent by outside special interests group.

......................

Dane101 ‏@dane101

MULawPoll: Wisconsin voters think Obama would better handle foreign policy 54-42.

Another one for you JMB

Tammy Baldwin ‏@TammyBaldwinWI

#WIsen #Tammymentum RT @wkow: U.S. Senate race: Tammy Baldwin has led or was tied in last eight polls of Wisconsin voters.

It would be a total waste of time in explaining anything to anyone who finds it necessary to resort to kindergarten name calling as an adult - Let me just say I find you (JMB) to be a "nice" person - as the word nice was understood and used in the 14th century. That ought to keep you busy for a while.

@sigmund kolatzki 4:21 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
You spiked my curiosity. I learned something. Thanks.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nice

Origin of NICE
Middle English, foolish, wanton, from Anglo-French, silly, simple, from Latin nescius ignorant, from nescire not to know — more at nescience
First Known Use: 14th century

@morninmist -

Astrologists?!?!

You're kidding, right? What's next - tweets from carnival gypsies and fortune tellers?

Perhaps a little card from the Zoltar machine from the Tom Hanks film Big (1988)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWZ4c66V1P4

Do you feel entitled to food, VLC? Were you going to vote for him before he said that? Are you now not going to vote for him because of that?

Truth sucks. So does 47% not paying federal taxes yet blaming the rich for not paying enough. Romney knows that 47% will vote for Obama and he was telling supporters that, please take him out of context some more.

@morninmist -

Can you afford your share of $6T in new Obama debt, which works out to about $38,605/taxpayer?

Hoff
All of Wisconsin is sharing in this horrible non job market of Walker's!!

@Progress2day

RT @kelleyalbrecht: RT @SpudLovr: Gov Scott Walker's Shocking Jobs Deficit CHART, BLS http://is.gd/f1cnPR #wiunion #wiright #tcot #p2

Nick, have you ever been tested for OCD?

@Nick Poulos -

Do you push this liberally biased nonsensical crap on the students you teach, either directly or indirectly - inquiring minds want to know!

Nick: As always your comments are about as interesting a navel lint.
I guess you never failed a single student, because your support for Obama is admirable. He has not done one single thing in the best interest of this Nation.
I can name six trillion things he has not done.
Can you name one single thing?

The REAL problem is that obama is a not-very-bright puppet. His puppet-masters put his speeches on his teleprompter.

Without his teleprompter, obama is toast!!!!

@Joseph Robert -

Not that Hoffa fully trusts any of the so-called 'fact-checkers' anymore, but most of those who claim to be non-biased/partisan seem to all say that an equal number of falsehoods or misrepresentations were told by both men throughout the course of the 90 minute debate, if not Obama actually lying just a bit more than Romney. Here's just one of those 'fact-checks:'

http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/fact-check-presidential-debate-missteps-155346190.html

ThinkProgress is known to be an extremely liberally biased organization, in case you didn't already realize that!

Mitt Romney is long on promises - short on truth @Bloomberg http://buswk.co/SDKSr0 #wiunion #wiright #rncliars #reince #gop

On taxes, Mitt Romney is long on promises and short on details.

The Republican presidential nominee pledges to “lower taxes on middle-income families,” without giving high earners another tax cut or adding to the U.S. budget deficit. He can do that, he says, by capping the value of tax breaks available to any individual taxpayer.

His tax plan, however, would upend financial planning for millions of middle-class households, denying them thousands of dollars in annual deductions. Earlier this week, after months of refusing to specify which tax breaks he would curtail, Romney said taxpayers might be able to take a total of no more than $17,000 in deductions each year.

That won’t bring in enough revenue to make up for almost $5 trillion the government will lose over 10 years once tax rates are reduced by 20 percent as Romney has proposed, according to economist William Gale of the Brookings Institution in Washington.

“It doesn’t come close to paying for the $5 trillion,” said Gale, who co-authored a study of Romney’s tax plan for the non-partisan Tax Policy Center in Washington. ....

I do find this simpleton Palin LIE being spread by Teabaggers.

Here are ten of Romney’s fact-challenged claims from last night:

1. An ‘Unelected Board’ Controlling Your Health Care

Despite President Obama trying to push back on this lie, Romney made this claim a few times last night. Obamacare, according to Romney, “puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have.” In reality, as the Associated Press points out , the board that is tasked with bringing down Medicare costs is prohibited from “rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.” This Romney claim also hearkened back to Sarah Palin’s lie that Obamacare created “death panels,” which was a straight up lie. ...

I hate to admit that I agree with you JMB on this one with a slight difference - the group - along with their chosen leaders Romney/Ryan should be understood as the 21st Century version of Carpetbaggers as opposed to Teabaggers. This group is as "nice" as you JMB. Fortunately JMB, Morninmist was inquisitive enough to have done the work for you. Thanks Morninmist.

JMB -

After you have been Teabagging for over 15-years you now find the word "a sexually derogatory reference." Well, you really are something...

JMB - I will also check with my socialist friends, my communist friends, women, gays, et.al. and will file my full report with you soon ok? Meanwhile, stay nice my friend.

tom munson -

That swagger is a monster of a swagger, even after the debate...

Monday, October 08. 2012
Washington (CNN) – A new national poll suggests Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney got a bounce out of last week's first presidential debate.

According to Gallup's latest seven-day tracking poll, President Barack Obama has a slight 49%-46% edge over Romney among registered voters nationwide, which is within the survey's sampling error. But Gallup breaks down their poll into pre- and post- debate figures.

Got it? Get it? Good!

Gallup Had Carter Up 4 Points Over Ronald Reagan in September 1980

John Wilson=no talent ass hat.

H.E. Packerpenny –

That outlier [Gallup (?) Poll] has largely been debunked and was in September, you might notice this is Oct. 8.

Additionally, you might notice it was a poll taken some 32-years ago, and, of course, statistical polling techniques have remained constant throughout those 32-years.

Furthermore, the entire CONTEXT – FYI: we actually have very powerful computers – along with Citizens United has sort of changed… EVERYTHING!

I do so sincerely hope this brings some much needed clarity to your absurd apples & oranges alternate universe...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/09/24/the_myth_of_jimmy_carter_s_eight_point_lead_over_reagan.html