patching...
Update: We've just hit 880 Facebook likes! Click here to help us get to 900! »
Welcome back, Patch Blogger!

School Start-Time Debate Making a Return?

At least one parent and one Greenfield School Board member want to revisit changing Greenfield High School's start time more than a year after the board shot down such a move.

 

Dolores Skowronek acknowledged that Greenfield School Board members were probably tired of her coming back to them to talk about school start times.

But it’s a topic—specifically the high school’s start time of 7:10 a.m.—that Skowronek is passionate about and one she vowed she would not stop addressing until changes were made.

“You have to realize you cannot alter the behavior of the population of high school students that changes every single year,” Skowronek told School Board members and administrators Monday. “You can tell these kids that they need to have more personal responsibility. You can insist that they go to bed earlier. You can insist that they get up and get to school on time.

“But that will have little impact because you have no real control over what these kids or parents do outside of school. If you want to make a difference, you must focus on things that you actually have control over, like the high school start times.”

Skowronek, who is now on the executive board of a national coalition called Start School Later, said she was disturbed by the high school’s grade of 59.6 in student achievement on the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction preliminary report card released Monday.

That grade correlates to “meets few expectations,” as defined by the DPI.

Skowronek attributed the low score at least partially to the school’s early start time. She said during the 2011-12 school year, there were 9,671 documented instances of first-hour tardies at the high school.

“That’s 9,671 instances of students missing part of their first-hour class and 9,671 instances where first-hour classes were being disrupted by students,” she said. “Classes like algebra and English, core classes that are essential to student achievement.”

After months of debate, the Greenfield School Board voted not to change the district’s school start times in May 2011, citing the price tag of $208,000 for the new busing routes as the chief concern for not moving forward.

“What’s more important, a cost-saving policy that’s not working or the health, safety and academics of our children?” Skowronek asked.

Neither administrators nor board members could address Skowronek’s concerns directly because the topic was not on the agenda, but board member Cathy Walsh later asked that it be added to a future agenda.

During her brief hiatus from the board, Walsh was on a committee, along with Skowronek, that recommended to the board to change the school’s start times in 2011.

“I think it’s something we can’t ignore … I think we need to keep talking about that,” Walsh said. “Maybe we take a look at busing again and maybe we reduce busing. There could be other avenues if money is the deal, but I think it’s costing us big money.”

Related Topics: Cathy Walsh, Dolores Skowronek, Greenfield School Board, Greenfield School District, and School start times

Kari O

9:42 pm on Tuesday, October 23, 2012

This is an issue that's bubbling up around the country. There are petitions springing up in several states to start schools at 8 am or later, a recommendation based on sound science and in keeping with the way the rest of the working world runs. This is a more traditional starting time than the crazy-early times we've gone to because of transportation concerns, and it just makes sense.

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

4:35 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Well, with these early start times that you call "crazy", students actually like the times! (A lot of them do). We get to get out earlier in the day instead of having to go to school later. We can spend more time doing what we'd like to do after school (including more homework time) instead of having to stay in school later into the afternoon.

Terra Ziporyn Snider, Ph.D.

10:02 pm on Tuesday, October 23, 2012

Greenfield is a very fortunate community to have someone like Dolores Skowronek willing to fight year after year for the health, safety, and welfare of children. She may not have a huge support group there, but she is hardly alone. As a health research librarian, Dolores is keenly aware that the research on this subject is crystal clear: in fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find a health professional, sleep researcher, or educator familiar with the now extensive body of research on this subject who wouldn't agree that requiring children (and teenagers are still children) to make it to class at these times is both dangerous and counterproductive. Dolores is a genuine hero, and we at Start School Later are proud to have her on our team.

Reply

Phyllis Payne

10:12 pm on Tuesday, October 23, 2012

The costs of the status quo are many, but are typically ignored because they are existing costs. I wonder how much money could be saved on remediation and the reduction in behavior problems (suspensions). What could be economically gained by the community by having higher student performance and fewer students who aren't graduating or aren't graduating on time? There are other costs to the community as well: increases in student depression (need for medication), car crashes caused by drowsy drivers, or doctor's visits because children get sick more often (sleep is important to healthy immune function).

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

4:24 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I disagree with you. You really think a later start time will result in less behavior problems? I don't think so. So, why is it in some private schools (who start later), also have significant behavior problems in some cases? Ever think of demographics as a possible reason? Ever think that kids simply don't care? The principal is issuing brand-new reforms this year. Why don't we let him see what he can do FIRST about this issue? Car crashes? Ummm...that's not a good argument point. People need to get used to driving early. In real life, sometimes people have to drive really early in the morning or late at night. I personally believe these are all excuses for unacceptable behavior, tardiness, and bad grades. Why don't we take some responsibility and realize these things happen because some kids simply don't care? Your plans don't go well with some students to change our start time--some people like getting out of school early. Some people work right after school. Why don't we understand failure is unacceptable and why don't we realize it would only be proper to let our principal try what he can first? Lets give the school a chance to get this straight first--that's my idea.

Comment_arrow

Phyllis Payne

9:37 am on Thursday, October 25, 2012

The prefrontal cortex of the brain is still developing in adolescents. This is the first part of the brain impacted by sleep loss. It is also the part of the brain responsible for executive function and decision-making. The research and what I have heard from teachers in districts that have changed their start times shows improvements in student behavior and fewer discipline problems in the schools -- a generally positive atmosphere. One of the teachers specifically mentioned that students were literally smiling, happier and more likely to participate in class.

Maribel Ibrahim

10:51 pm on Tuesday, October 23, 2012

I find the picture to go with this article particularly poignant. Mrs. Skowronek has stood valiantly, and many times, alone, in the fight to educate her community about the proven detrimental effects of these absurdly early school start times.

I take great pride in working with Dolores, who has become an ambassador for later school start times, both in Greenfield and beyond. She has helped influence community activism in Maryland, Texas, Florida and Washington, DC and beyond.

It gives me great pride to know Mrs. Skowronek, both as a colleague and a friend. And, it pleases me no end that she will never have to fight this fight alone anymore.

Regards,
Maribel C. Ibrahim
Co-Founder,
Start School Later, Inc.
www.StartSchoolLater.net

Reply

Lynn McDonnell Keefe

8:49 am on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Leaders in education, such as Superintendents and School Board Members, are expected to incorporate research data in making progressive policy changes for their school districts. Research has proven that a high school start time after 8:30a.m. significantly improves academic and health outcomes for our teen students. The classroom environment affects learning. It costs money to heat the classrooms comfortably in Wisconsin, and it'll cost money to change the bus schedule to a later first period class start time. Temperature and time are both important and both worth funding.
Greenfield School District teachers, parents, and students are fortunate to have Dolores Skowronek leading the effort to make this change. Academics and Health...nothing is more important for our teens.

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

4:30 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Many of the students of Greenfield High School disapprove of these plans--when they know the facts. Going to school until later in the day? Students don't like it. Parents? They think sleep rarely impacts the poor results of this school. They know their own kids. It is the students that chose to do good or bad. Teachers? Probably think it would be a hassle. After-all, some of them commute to work from longer distances and would like to miss traffic during rush hour. I'm sorry--but I'm afraid the majority of us are not behind you. Whether it's students, teachers, or parents, I am sure that the majority of them are not behind you when they know what time we'd be getting out of school. This is ridiculous. We need to let our principal carry out his reforms and see what he can do to turn our school around and help us succeed.

robert heule

11:00 am on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

The change always failed on a 4 t0 3 vote. Please listen to Dolores, she has the evidence that the later starting time will benefit students as stated in the aforementioned posts. Additional negotiations with with the bus company are necessary. It is peculiar that year after year the board finds it "too costly" to change the schedules. Administrative staff reductions such as a "community relations" position can be eliminated.

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

4:39 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I believe Greenfield High School can reach success without these drastic start time changes that the Start School Later Coalition has been organizing. We need to let our new leadership in the high school make this right. And, for the first year, our principal has brand-new reforms that will help students succeed. Lets give him a chance to turn our school around and not just sit here and change our start time just because some people believe it will help. Some people have things to do after school, so they'd like to get out of school early--not have to stay later into the afternoon. We need to see if our leaders (administrators) can fix it from here--we don't need this drastic start time change.

Stacy Simera

11:17 am on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

If the school board is worried about money (and not about auto accidents, sports injuries, poor grades, decreased enrollment or obesity - all of which are associated with chronic sleep deprivation and early school start times) - then the board would be well served to note the Hamilton Project (Brookings Institution) report from Sep 2011 that projects a "conservative" benefit to cost ratio of 9 to 1 for delaying school start times: http://www.hamiltonproject.org/files/downloads_and_links/092011_organize_jacob_rockoff_paper.pdf

Reply

Todd Wilde

12:08 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

As the parent of a teenager with a cellphone and Facebook account I can tell you that starting school later is not the answer. What IS the answer?? It's parents monitoring their child's night time activities texting on cell phones, Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, X-Box.......and the list goes on. Why are Kids tardy 1st, 2nd and 3rd hours??? Simple......They are NOT sleeping, because they are constantly on electronic devices. Look at any Facebook wall and you will see exactly when posts are being made. They are made at literally ALL hours of the night. Parents go to bed and their kids stay up all night! There is a much more simple and FREE solution to the tardiness issue.........make your kids go to bed at a reasonable hour! If you delay the start times it WILL NOT change the outcome because the tardiness problem is not related to the start time it's related to lack of adequate sleep!

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

4:10 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I truly agree with this parent 100%. I've seen people walk into classes with coffee shop products in their hands when they come in late to class. Hmmmm...maybe they went to pick up some coffee? Maybe that's why they're late! Apparently, this "Start School Later" campaign wants to drown-out citizens voices. This isn't about health--it's about responsibility. I think that the people who are behind this movement should step down, take responsibility, and give up already. This is ridiculous. The Greenfield High School principal put out brand-new reforms this year to help all students succeed. Maybe we should see if his ideas would work first? The 2012-2013 school year is the first year to have such reforms. I think it's concerning that all of these out-of-state people on the organization trying to change our start time are trying to sway Greenfield citizens to believe that an early start time will be beneficial. Now, I understand that Patch is meant to be a "free speech" community and we should respect one another and have the right to post; I just don't feel that this coalition should have any "say so" in what our start time is. It's simply not right. We have older people in our Greenfield community that are paying a little more every year because our high school had a big cost of building it. This isn't right to rack up the bill to pay for new bus schedules. Folks, start time isn't the problem--and changing it isn't the solution. Lets save our time, not radically change!

robert heule

12:47 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Todd, How do you know what is going on in each individual household ?

Reply
Comment_arrow

Todd Wilde

9:24 am on Thursday, October 25, 2012

Robert, all you have to do is observe any high school age students Facebook wall and look at what time posts are made. I start work at 5:00 am ( talk about an early start time right??) and if I look at any teenagersFacebook wall or his friends walls there are posts that were clearly made anywhere from 1 minute ago to 4 hours ago and that's relative to 5:00 am. Teenagers do not have a filter when it comes to social media, you can either directly read what is going on in their households or read between the lines!

robert heule

12:54 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I'd like to know what "special interest" groups who are championing early dismissal are fighting the later starting time. Please come forth with your side of the issue so the community can have an intelligent dialog.

Reply

Heather Macintosh

7:01 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I hope this conversation can continue to take place without any one person shouting down the other participants. David, it's so great that you're passionate about this issue but I strongly disagree with your statement that this coalition of citizens who have studied the research carefully should have no "say so" in helping to bring this discussion to the school board.

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

9:28 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I understand what you're saying and there's no disrespect intended. We have repeatedly said your proposal in Greenfield is bad yet for some reason you keep trying to change it. I'm sorry, but you don't have many students behind you in your proposal to change our start time. You don't have many parents as well. And I'm sure teachers don't like it either. I think Greenfield should reform its school the way it's attempting to now--through strong leadership of our principal. Why can't you give him a chance? Greenfield is working to succeed through these new reforms. We don't need a start change to get things done--we're trying to get everyone succeeding right now and we hope it's effective. Why can't you just give our principal a chance to make this right?

Mary King

7:54 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

This "special interest" group is passionate about the health and safety of children. Many of us have a long history of advocating for later start times on a local level. We have witnessed the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation on our own children and we know that pre-dawn start times are harmful and arbitrary. We certainly expect students AND adults to be responsible. This isn't about blaming students' lack of responsibility or bad parenting. In fact if the adults who put these schedules in place want to be responsible they should consider the mounting pile of research that supports later school start times. We wish your principal much success with the reforms he's devised and hope that your school sees vast improvements. But please don't discount the value of later school start times.

Reply
Comment_arrow

David P

9:36 pm on Wednesday, October 24, 2012

I understand your proposal. But, I'm sorry, Greenfield doesn't need it. It's not welcome here. I'm sorry, but I have NEVER seen ANYONE walk into school like a zombie and I've never heard of ANY of our students getting into accidents because they're tired. We're working to succeed--our principal is helping students to succeed. I think this is good enough, Greenfield. We're working hard to get this done successfully. We don't need a start time change. Lets make the old system work--not radically reform it with a start time change. Quite honestly, we're at the point where we, quite frankly, don't really care about all the research behind this--we're doing fine right now. Students need to care. I've heard about upperclassmen mentoring the freshmen. This helps because freshmen will feel more welcome and it will sustain and support the school to becoming more open and it is also showing the community how people in a school can work together. We don't need your proposal to change our start time--I'm sorry, it's not necessary in Greenfield. We like our 'getting out early' time. We need to be able to train students for the workforce--it's not easy if you go to farms across Wisconsin in which people have to get up really early to tend to the duties of the day. We need to realize that not everything will be easy in life. We need to work together to solve this problem instead of trying to change a start time that a lot of people simply don't want.

Dolores Skowronek

8:08 am on Thursday, October 25, 2012

Young David, your comments implying that our community does not care about the research findings on early start times or adolescent sleep deprivation should upset me – but they don’t. While I am an advocate for later start times, I am also a mom and comments like yours make me sort of sad. Here’s why. The value of empirical evidence, research methodologies, and the critical analysis and application of information are all taught in our Greenfield schools. I know, because my children were taught to understand and value these from their Greenfield teachers. My kids, like many others who were educated in our schools, now have life skills that will enable them to make wise and informed decisions for many years to come.

So, I find it sad when a student dismisses the value of good information. By no means does that represent what is taught in our schools or reflect the attitude of every parent and student living in our community.

Reply

Chris Kelnhofer

12:11 pm on Thursday, October 25, 2012

Whitnall adopted a later starting time this year and i have to say it helps. It's only 30 mins later but I can really notice the difference.

Reply

mr.chris a engel

6:49 pm on Saturday, February 2, 2013

lets invite the tardy students to transfer to Witnall with no cost to Greenfield

Reply

Leave a comment