Mr. Perry, what respect does all of the others worker of you state have. Your pay hasn't been cut, you still have a job. You have to pay a little more but still less than your counter part (rest of the working people) So suck it up and stop whinning. I 've been in the construction business all my life, I didn't have job security, health, vacation, retirement; just hard every day work as most American do and I keep my job, not because of the union, because I was good at what I did and the pay was good, again not because of the union, only because I worked hard and was good. If you don't like what you have, do what every other American worker does, find another job!!! If you're good as you say you are, then there should be no problem.

Addition: I did not realize how good Mr. Perry your pay is, WOW!!! The average Milwaukee public-school teacher salary is $56,500, but with benefits the total package is $100,005, according to the manager of financial planning for Milwaukee public schools and you still aren't happy. What can one say except oh, you belong to the Union. WANT MORE, MORE AND THEN MORE. When is enough, enough? I think now, until the economy gets better.

Mr. Perry, what respect does all of the others worker of you state have. Your pay hasn't been cut, you still have a job. You have to pay a little more but still less than your counter part (rest of the working people) So suck it up and stop whinning. I 've been in the construction business all my life, I didn't have job security, health, vacation, retirement; just hard every day work as most American do and I keep my job, not because of the union, because I was good at what I did and the pay was good, again not because of the union, only because I worked hard and was good. If you don't like what you have, do what every other American worker does, find another job!!! If you're good as you say you are, then there should be no problem.

Yes, summers off! In other words, 2.5 months without an income, but an obligation to continue your education at your own expense!

Dee, Teachers have the option to be paid out over twelve months,of just the months they work, but you knew that didn't you. Just trying to make a point with a half truth.

What a jerk you are!

Everyone I talk to does not blame the teachers, however we do blame the greedy money laundering unions. They are destroying our Country! The showdown in Wisconsin over fringe benefits for public employees boils down to one number: 74.2. That's how many cents the public pays Milwaukee public-school teachers and other employees for retirement and health benefits for every dollar they receive in salary. The corresponding rate for employees of private firms is 24.3 cents.

Gov. Scott Walker's proposal would bring public-employee benefits closer in line with those of workers in the private sector. And to prevent benefits from reaching sky-high levels in the future.
The average Milwaukee public-school teacher salary is $56,500, but with benefits the total package is $100,005, according to the manager of financial planning for Milwaukee public schools. ...What these numbers ultimately prove is the excessive power of collective bargaining. The teachers' main pension plan is set by the state legislature, but under the pressure of local bargaining, the employees' contribution is often pushed onto the taxpayers.
As the costs of pensions and insurance escalate, the governor's proposal to restrict collective bargaining to salaries—not benefits—seems entirely reasonable.

Maranatha,
Without the power of collective bargaining what's to prevent pushing 100% of healthcare premiums off onto the individual teacher? Is that what you want to see happen or how much is enough?

Ya Lyle that's gonna happen. Please don't over blow the concessions, we still need teachers.

Ni Mark,
I agree that we still need teachers, but we are at the cusp of tremendous change with a great deal of uncertainty. Even with the state employees, they are still below their private counterparts by some 50% and I can see arguments coming to raise it to the same levels as the private sector average. Teachers are even more vulnerable with the budget cuts being made to the school districts and they can't raise property taxes, then to keep health benefits the teachers are going to have to pick up more; even if they escape the WEAC-IT scam. I think a great many teachers will leave teaching because they can't continue financially; especially if it all comes at once, which in many cases it will.

I believe supply and demand will decide the proper wage and benefit packages.

Huh? How would that work? We're not talking widgets here. Are you saying that if enough teachers leave the profession that supply will decline thus making their services more valuable and we'll have to pay them more?

Well....
Na, not widgets. But there has to be a correction and I think there is a definite balance out there. We all know we need teachers, schools, public workers, etc, but right now we look at it and say at what price do I require these things. I think people begin to start wondering about private schools, home schooling, etc because they never really weighed those options before. It was taken for granted, I will just put the kid on the bus and it's all good. Now peoples eyes are open to the price we pay for the product we get as money tightens.

So what should teachers who have earned degrees get? The governor has six-figures with none. Me thinks you all are looneys. And guess what else, teachers deal with kids just like the one who axed his grand pa. Now tell me how over paid they are. They do the work of cops, psychiatrists, mothers and fathers, then have to try and teach a subject, administer tests, while you ingrates beef. Just mind boggling.

Maranatha,
You must have been watching something far different than I did. The protesters used unusual restraint for so many. The authorities also restrained their actions. I am proud of Wisconsinites for speaking out without resorting to violence. As far as damage to the capitol it was minimal and was mostly cleanup, since no significant damage occurred. I was around during the 60s and 70s and I've seen how bad protests can become. In regards to the signs and their "horrific" messages, remember we all can exercise our first amendment rights of free speech. I've seen worse displayed at Tea Party gatherings. You will have to get used to the messy business of democracy. Better words than bullets.

Mr Perry, I too am amazed at the comments labeling teachers negative, but you have to agree that there bad apples in each crop and so with society as a whole. I am thankful and grateful for all of my teachers and professors. With the economy and the burdened of the tax payer including teachers and public servants too, we need to show some restraint to how much we can afford, if we can not afford the Hartford's, or Ivory league Schools, then we may have to settle for State or Junior Colleges, by the way I've seen great teachers from these great institutions. If we can not afford at this time all the perks (that one may want or need) then we have a to do the best we can and in saying this we need all the help that you and all the other non pulblic workers are willing to give and then maybe more, just to balance the budget. This is what we had to do in my home budget, it gets real sticky and tight sometimes, but with a strong will and mind, we seem as individuals and a Americans make it. So, stop with all the patting on the back and let's get down to real business and not do what the Democrats did, go and hide. Let's agree to disagree and let democarcy work as it always has, win or lose, being an American, we all win in the en

Lazy, ineffective and uncaring. Unfortunately that DOES describe a number of teachers in the system, and it tends to be the longer tenured, higher compensated. Again,a big problem with public sector unions is the inability to pay based on classroom performance. I used the on-line data base to check on some of the teachers my children have had and discovered that the worst teacher my kids had in elementary school is paid $12K more than the best teacher they had. The worst? SHe just basically goes through the motions, no enthusiasm, attitude of being put upon when you call to discuss something with her,etc. Ironically, when veiwing some videos of the protesters, she was the only teacher I recognized, and she seemed pretty passionate about getting hers. You want your respect to grow? rid yourself of the union shackles and you'll be suprised how good it feels to not be constantly told how bad you have it, how you're being taken advantage of , how you deserve more. Trust me, I'm a former 16 year union member and I speak from experiance.

Sounds more like your lecture was a bore. Was it?

Because we can relate to the 'ordinary citizen' who has been getting wages and benefits that far exceed what they should be. We see them patrolling our streets, shining our fire trucks, cleaning our parks and teaching our kids and it saddens me they choose union over our families.

Laura, you lose credilbilty with you're complete lack of understanding of what caused he economic meltdown.

Laura, to help you out I'm posting this video. The first part of it give a pretty good desription of what really caused the economic meltdown, the latter part goes into a diatribe about Obama which doesn't belong in this argument so Understand that I'm posting this just for the timeline and reasoning,not because I think "It's all Obama's fault".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY

Laura,
There's plenty of blame to go around and it can't be singled out at just one person or group. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank should both be spending time in jail with their complicity to deregulation and self interest. It started in earnest with Jimmie Carter and grew from there. The regulatory agencies have been playing along for years with those they have been supposed to regulate. In fact, financial regulation has become so complicated that Wall Streeters go from being regulated to becoming the regulators and back again. The excuse you hear is that it is so complicated that it is only insiders who understand it. Sort of like the fox watching the hen house. Jimmie Carter, bless his little peanut digging soul, wanted to overcome the excessive "red lining" of the time and got legislation passed to solve one problem but the financial horse took the bit into their teeth and ran away with it. From the 70s, 80s, 90s up to 2008, they couldn't deregulate fast enough, all in the name of helping the consumer and making it easier on business. Just like with 401(k) supplemental retirement plans; they weren't ever designed to replace qualified pension programs, but yet they did. It is Big Money that has benefited and the rest of us can take it in the shorts and not allow them to fail. Money talks and BS walks. We've all been had and the whole damn system is corrupt. Walker and his bunch, with their Libertarian approach, want to create a regulation free zone and attract business.

You mean a pack of Chihuahua's like 600,000 of them? Not deprived in the least, just not foolish with my money.

Laura,
I agree that much of the anger is displaced and we should all be angry at the plutocrats. I won't be satisfied until I see them cooling their heels in the "graybar hotel and not just club med." I think it is natural that while our private sector brother and sister workers have been taking it in the shorts, metaphorically speaking, that the public workers sat out on the sidelines watching. Public workers had the advantage of being protected by unions while most of the private sector did not. Now that our bull is getting gored, we can't expect much sympathy and there is a strong feeling that government workers are only one step above welfare recipients. I could go on about business and corporate welfare and such, but that is far removed from someone who has lost their job while we labored on. Now with collective bargaining gone, when the economy turns around and our counterparts in the private sector recover, we will have to remind them that we need to recover too.

LOL! The sausages makes it even better!!

Michael Matuswic,
I see things differently. I think the fleebagger 14 were serving their constituency and became surrogates of the public employees who could not legally take work actions. If you look at it, most public employees and teachers stayed on the job not shutting down government services. I really don't think the Wisconsin 14's credibility matters much to you. My guess is that you wouldn't respect them anyway, even if they hadn't fled to Illinois. It would appear that your respect for teachers has been absent for quite some time and they didn't have any credibility to lose with you.

Hello Michael, I too am retired on a fixed income and I agree we all have to sacrifice for the sake of those facing hardship now and to correct antecedent conditions that effect the future. The basic question; is there a place for unions in the public sector? If we choose to not allow unions, then I think we need to overhaul the civil service statutes and incorporate things from the collective bargain contracts and make them permanent. Workplace rules and seniority could be addressed and holes could be closed in the code. As of now there is nothing to prevent layoffs of the oldest workers and prevent ageism by younger supervisors. As the kids say, back in the day, I was an old time activist. I appreciate your input and will watch for your further posts. Thank you.

Michael, stupidity and self interest is not the sole property of anyone group. Whether it is a union, company, or government; they are all capable of mismanagement. Look at the pension benefit scams the unions got themselves into with organized crime. For many unions their pensions built Las Vegas and didn't benefit at all. I've set across the table from union negotiators during collective bargaining and it is a painful laborious process. Both parties have to come together and bargain in good faith. Management has to be willing to allow transparency with the state of the business; this includes real costs, market potential, true projected revenues and most of all business plans. The union, on the other hand, must keep their demands in line with what management can do and in a publicly traded company, what the shareholders will tolerate. The government is no different; but, management represents not the private shareholder, but the taxpayer. Now if you have an honest and transparent government that doesn't overly politicize decisions, then you can be assured that both parties are bargaining in good faith. We are fortunate in Wisconsin that our WRS is 100% funded and if carefully managed will continue to provide the benefits promised. Unlike states that are only partially funded and must pay benefits based on current revenues, Wisconsin's public retirement fund has been properly managed. I was forced to take early retirement and my retirement was depleted by the market.

I know this is carrying on too long, but a couple of other points. One of the biggest drains on our federal budget is the entitlements including social security. We wouldn't be having funding problems with it now if congress and the president would have kept to the actuarial time line they created when they passed the legislation in 1935. They started dipping into two years early and the core reserves have been too quickly depleted along with dipping into it to bolster the general fund shortfalls. The new reality is that there aren't enough workers paying into the system to support the longer living retirees. Thus, changes are going to have to be made to shore up the program. From my perspective the smart thing to do is create a single payer retirement system and a single payer health system.

Fiscal Conservative,
Good morning. I see you're up and feisty as usual. Just a couple of minor points. First, unions are made up of individual members and deriding the union is by extension deriding the individual members, good and bad. Are we to hold teachers and public employees to a different standard than we generally hold others too? When did self interest become a sin in the United States; I hear a great deal of self interest in your statements. Over the course of my long private career I have seen a good share of private workers who were being overpaid for what they were actually doing. In general, Americans spend a lot of time at work, but very little time actually working. The old days of assembly production is long gone and now we have cubicle production. I respect workers for providing a good or service receiving an honest days pay for an honest day's work. You criticize Doug Perry for what he has achieved in his career. I don't know, but I am sure he has spent many years educating himself and practicing his profession. Would you level the same criticism if Mr. Perry was a physician?
Final point for those who anecdotally point out poor teachers; having raised four kids in the public school system, it is my role as a parent and taxpayer to hold them accountable for the job they do. If I don't like what I see, I grab the teacher and the principal and sit them down and hash it out. My kids' education is my responsibility and I will insure they get the best!

Are we to holdpublic employees to a different standard?? According to those freinds of Labor Gearge Meany and FDR, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

"It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government. Unions, as well as employers, would vastly prefer to have even Government regulation of labor-management relations reduced to a minimum consistent with the protection of the public welfare..."
~George Meany

"Meticulous attention, should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government....The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."

~FDR

Fiscal Conservative,
First of all, look at the date of the quotations and the full context. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since the 1930s. To make it possible for public employees to organize they had to give up the right for job actions. I would just as soon that there wasn't a need for public unions and collective bargaining. Let's get smart and take on the task of rewriting the antiquated Civil Service Statutes. That's what the federal government did and their workers don't need unions, they have statutory law to protect the workers. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth and say that public employees or no different than you and yet on the other hand hold them to a set of different standards that you aren't subject to.

Older workers can become targets due to the cost savings gained from laying off the most expensive workers first. Eliminating protection of the most senior employees from initial layoffs puts a group of experienced employees at a disadvantage that is not usually experienced by the more junior workers. It is far more difficult for the older worker to gain new employment due to the persistence problems of ageism. In addition, the layoff of the most experienced workers will inevitably lead to an overall reduction of efficiencies and service qualities. Why reinvent the wheel when you don’t have to. 3. Collective bargaining provides for unique workplace conditions and safety. Statutory codes represent one size fits all type of instruments. Without collective bargaining then the statutory codes must be written and amended to cover all possible working scenarios.

Lyle,the free market has taken care of those things in the private sector, why would teaching be any different? Niether I, nor the majority of my freinds, work at unionized employers yet no one I know pays 100% towards healthcare. I pay 15%, most folks are at 20%. Most employers willonly unload the high cost employees that do not deliver. Schoolswant tokeep their testing scores up, to do this they need the good teahcers. Again,actually performing on your job should help you. These are "Chicken Little" arguments Lyle.

Fiscal Conservative,
Wow are you naive. I've lived too long and seen too much. I was in the business of doing risk analysis, business start ups and closures in the corporate world. In the first place the public sector does not function like the private sector's free market forces (the free market doesn't really exist it's only a myth). If what you're saying is that if a company deviates too far from Standard Business Practice for their given industry they will meet the going rates to attract and retain employees. In your position it is 15% and your friends it is 20%, but what is to prevent them from not offering health care at all. If they could do it, trust me, they would. Business is far from ethical nor do they care whether or not they retain you. You are considered like any other resource that is to used and once consumed, discarded. Over the last thirty years I have seen "Chicken Little" stories as you characterize it, all too often come true and no one is immune.

Lyle,
Collective bargaining is an impediment to progress. Proven impediment in teaching. You say it prevents 100% healthcare contributions. I disagree. Not being able to hire an employee, when you make them contribute 100% of health care is what stops it. Seniority is as much a problem as it is a benefit. Removing seniority lets you weed out the bad senior employees. You honestly think a manager would let go, a senior employee that has more experience and produced, with a proven track record, to hire an unproven, less expeienced, without. Known vs. unknown? Highly unlikely.Collective bargaining is not a good thing to have in place, when unique conditions and safety concerns arise. Without CB a manager can act the same day a problem is brought up. With CB they must first check with the union. You seem to think collective bargaining is this efficient machination Have you not seen basic CB agreements that actually give more to employees, but not enough to suit them,are negotiated for years? Since scott walker started this process,negotiations that were 1.5 yrs old and, not close to being settled, were settled in 1 weeks time. Sorry my friend, collective bargaining for public employees, is a negative, not a plus.

Rolf,
I don't like collective bargaining because it is a poor substitute to fair and effective statutory law that will protect the interests of the workers and also management. CB is only expedient when it doesn't make sense to rewrite the entire statutory code to address the needs of specific groups. I hope you aren't so committed to your position that you don't see the risk that older workers are facing in this legislation. Layoffs should never be used to get rid of "bad apples". Poor performing employees need to be dealt with on performance issues and separated if necessary. As it stands now with all public employee contracts either null and void or at the end of the force period, will then stand unprotected. I know for a fact that many pending grievances have or will be thrown away because of the change. The current civil service code does not address the issues of bad management, it is all focused on worker regulation. I am not so naive or trusting that politics will not enter into decisions to raise health care contributions, retirement contributions and work place safety. Also, the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the Libertarian goal of privatizing as many as possible of the current services provided by government agencies; including schools, W2, etc. Finally, if as you say CB for public employees is a negative and impedes progress, then how are we going to protect the dedicated public employees from the potential excesses? I am open to suggestions.

Lyle, in response to #5, in reviewing the emails between the republicans you'll note that the Governor offered to put many of those workplace issues back into the CB portion and had the DEms come back to vote the teachers would have those assurances in place right now. The blame for those issue being removes rests squarely on Union bosses and the 14 Dems.

Fiscal Conservative,
Why didn't the Republicans and Walker leave the changes in the CB agreement? They could of and didn't and I don't think they ever planned to honor the concessions. Read Fitzgerald's interviews after the bill was passed and you'll find that basically it was a ploy to get one Dem to come back and pass the original bill. Quit the blame game and realize the realities of rough and tumble politics. This is hardball baby!

Michael,
Public employees cannot strike, it's illegal.

SOoo, you're saying the Dem 14 broke the law??

No they didn't break the law, they are not part of a public union.

It's not a case of being objective or not, look, listen and read the interviews with Senator Fitzgerald, one on Fox.

The average teachers compensation is over $100,000, pay including benefits. The source is video of an MPS administrator reciting salary and fringe benefit numbers during a school board meeting. Have you seen the numbers for literacy lvls, and graduation rates for public schools in Milwaukee? Around 50% or lower across the board. Greenfield school district is "ALOT" better. They probably receive similar compensation, within 5%, because negotiations are based on surrounding districts.

The problem is not the hard working teachers or the hard working public employees. The problem is the employee unions. Stonewalling in negotiations, and not bargaining in good faith. If they had, we would not be in this position. All school employees should have one thing in mind, one goal, and that is the children. What is best for the children. Unions forgot that along the way, so have some of teachers.

the biggest portion of your property tax bill is for the school district. Watch who you elect to the school board and don't forget how we were misled on the issue of the High School.Let two walls of the old cafateria stand and it falls under the term of maintaing rather than replacing. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.